Leading a Coaching Culture with Corry Robertson

Corry Robertson is a leading global expert on organizational culture, coaching culture and colleague engagement. She’s also the founder and CEO of The Coaching Academy for Leaders. In this episode learn about:

  • Coaching as a way of being
  • Why creating a coaching culture is key for leaders
  • How to adapt your coaching and communication style in a virtual world
  • The reason emotional connections in coaching are so important.

Plus loads more hacks!

The Leadership Hacker News

Steve Rush: In the new today we’ve got a fun and bizarre story just to put into context how crazy our biases can be. The guy who travels the New York, subway dressed as a giant rat as his bizarre costume makes it dead easy to practice social distancing, Jonothon Lyon purchase on the train six wearing his strange regalia as part of his work as a performance artist. And he says his costume is ideal for staying COVID secure. He’s told us that he doesn’t have to worry about what people are saying or how close they need to get because the six feet distance is just naturally happening. A video of Jonathon riding, the rails dresses as Buddy the Rat went viral online with the official account of New York metropolitan transport authority joking, thank you for wearing a mask. Jonothon points out that he was wearing a surgical face mask underneath his rat face. In fact, sometimes he wears an extra face mask on top of buddy face. When not infesting the underground, Jonothon works in physical theatre and puppetry as well as performing as part of a barbershop quartet, The Apple Boys. He’s even done a stint with internationally famous performance art company, Blue Man Group, but Jonothon best known for scampering around on TikToK as Manhattan’s largest rodent. He occasionally even carries a giant pizza slice to add a touch of realism to the scene. Jonothon said he created his Buddy the Rat character just over 10 years ago, and his first video showing buddy expedition to times square scored just over 70,000 views on YouTube.

So good luck to Jonothon and Buddy the Rat, but the leadership lens here is quite simple. However, absurd and obvious it may seem to people that a giant rat can put space between us proves that our unconscious thinking and our unconscious mindset still plays out in some simple behaviours. So, the next time you see a giant rat and you think I need to run away from it, it’s probably just Jonothon. That’s been The Leadership Hacker News. If you have any fun, interesting, or just plain crazy stories that you’d like our listeners to hear, please get in touch.

Start of Podcast

Steve Rush: Corry Robinson is our special guest on today’s show. She’s a leading global expert on organizational culture, engagement and retention, particularly in the tech industry. She’s also the founder and CEO of The Coaching Academy for Leaders. Corry, welcome to The Leadership Hacker Podcast.

Corry Robertson: Thank you for having me, Steve.

Steve Rush: Joining us all the way from Quebec in Canada today.

Corry Robertson: Absolutely.

Steve Rush: How is Canada dealing with the world and what’s happening right now?

Corry Robertson: Well, you know, I think Canadians are being good Canadians, you know, trying hard to, you know, limit the spread of COVID-19, learn to keep a great attitude, you know, and just trying to keep the world turning, you know, doing our part to get through this together.

Steve Rush: Good stuff. So, tell us a little bit about your journey Corry, from where you started out to then running and leading and coaching and inspiring others?

Corry Robertson: Great question. I started with a degree in communication studies actually, and I entered the workforce and I was just so excited. It was my dream come true to, you know, get out and start working and making my mark on the world. I started realizing very quickly in that it wasn’t all that it was cracked up to be. You know, I was really looking forward to, you know, working with great leaders and having great colleagues. In retrospect, I realized what was really lacking for me was strong leadership, visionary leadership. And so, I moved from advertising into project managing events, which I really, really enjoyed and took a break from that when my husband had an opportunity to move abroad and we had a small child at the time. And then when we got abroad and the baby was on the way and I wanted to go back to my events business, but I didn’t have a network. And so, I decided I was going to build one. So, I started this business called the Elvetham Heath business network. And Elvetham Heath was the name of the village we lived in and the business grew and grew and grew. And what ended up happening was is, I took all of my work experience that I had had from, you know, from advertising. I did some time in magazine publishing and of course there was the events. I realized that these skills were really important for my business network. So before, you know, I’m publishing a magazine for, you know, full articles written by my clients. You know, giving really great advertising opportunities. I’m organizing trade shows, I’m hosting networking events, giving public speaking opportunities to my clients. And three of my clients were business coaches and two of them became really good friends. And one of them lent me his material from this training school that he went to become a coach. And he lent me the material on Friday afternoon, two huge binders because in those days we still received our learning material on paper and on eve files.

Steve Rush: There was no Zoom then.

Corry Robertson: There was no Zoom, no digital files. Our business network actually had one of the first websites that anyone had seen. Nobody had really gotten hooked on websites yet; it was still pretty new. And I realized from clients who were coaches, what I’ve learned from them is that most people, although they’re asking for advice, so they reach out and they ask for help. They don’t really need advice. And this is really where the coaching magic comes in as you know, people already have so much information, so much education, so much experience, so much creativity and intelligence that they don’t need mine. They don’t need yours. They don’t need anybody else. They need somebody to help coax it out of them. And that’s what coaching is. So, when I discovered coaching as a profession, in Canada coaches were sports coaches, not life coaches or leadership coaches or corporate coaches. So, it was brand new to me. And it was just, it was a catalyst for me. I have this, this is really, really exciting stuff. And it’s such a great opportunity to be a part of.

Steve Rush: Awesome, I had a very similar experience. Actually, its kind of gets hold of you, doesn’t it? When you can unlock the potential in others through just conversation in great communication, it’s almost a luring, isn’t it? And you just want more of it and more of it.

Corry Robertson: Oh, absolutely. As you know, I train coaches, I mentor aspiring coaches and I always tell them, I said, there’s going to come a time when you witnessed somebody’s “A-HA!” moment and you will never be the same again.

Steve Rush: Yeah, I feel very privileged in having done that several occasions, if not more than several occasions. And it’s a very intimate experience, isn’t it? And you know, particularly cherish.

Corry Robertson: Oh, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. And then you think this is my blessing. This is my career. You know, people come to me and they allow me to hold space and bear witness to their transformation. And it’s so special because it’s not from me. I didn’t tell them anything. I didn’t give them anything that they didn’t already have, just held the space open long enough and wide enough for them to see it for themselves.

Steve Rush: So, what’s the key focus that you’re working with your clients on right now?

Corry Robertson: Bringing coaching into cultures as the leadership style, you know, not just doing coaching, you know, oh, you know, maybe I’ll try my coaching hat for this problem, no. My main focus with my clients right now is bringing in coaching as the primary and fundamental culture of an organization and supporting leaders in developing coaching as their leadership style and not just a leadership trick or tip.

Steve Rush: I did my master’s degree on coaching. And what I observed through my research is that the higher the leaders became in their organizational hierarchy to the C-Suite, the less they coached, but the more they recognized the need for it, how do you kind of help people through that journey?

Corry Robertson: Wow, that’s an interesting one, you know, and sometimes they think that the higher people go the more they feel the value they deliver comes from imparting their knowledge and their experience and providing the solutions and thinking quickly and coming in and making things better. And that’s where they feel that they’re providing value. And that’s what they feel they’re being measured and judged and so on and so forth. But, you know, as well as I do that, the higher people go, the more they have to take on that servant leadership approach and the coaching approach becomes even more effective. So, when I encounter that, you know, when I encounter that people are getting in their own way. It’s just a matter of reminding, you know, that the coaching approach is really powerful and not to forget that and then work through it. You know, in my coaching conversations, I always ask my clients, you know, bring something real to the conversation, you know, come ready to talk about what’s going on in your day to day right now, this morning or what’s happening this afternoon that you need to prepare for. When people are dealing with hypotheticals and what would I do if, and what if this should happen? It’s less effective.

Steve Rush: Right.

Corry Robertson: Because it’s fiction.

Steve Rush: Definitely is, isn’t it? Communication cuts through all of the work you do now. So, having studied that as a kind of a foundation, I should imagine that you’re drawing on that all the while. So right the way through organizational culture, leadership development, and coaching, how have you noticed communication shift this year particularly?

Corry Robertson: I think there’s a big shift in that people don’t have their water cooler time. You know, they don’t have that few minutes before the meeting where everyone’s gathering and, you know, sitting around the table, waiting for everyone to arrive. The energetic connection between people is weaker now. So, it makes communication harder. You know, when you can’t be with a person in their daily interactions, it’s, it’s much, much more difficult for people to connect.

Steve Rush: Yeah.

Corry Robertson: I think people are struggling with that.

Steve Rush: I like the way you framed that, that kind of energy connection, but that’s exactly what it is because people have this perception that communication is verbal or nonverbal, but there is this kind of a sensory communication that we miss as well, isn’t that?

Corry Robertson: I think so, and I’m glad you brought that up because a lot of coaching happens over the phone. So, my practice hasn’t really changed all that much because like I was home-based before. The only thing that really changes is the training program, which is used to be all in person, but now it’s online. But when you’re aware of energy and I really want to take a minute to flush this out. You can still establish an intuitive connection over the phone or over you know, a video conference of some kind. It’s just a matter of being aware of your intuition. You can hear a person’s body language through the telephone.

Steve Rush: Yeah, you can.

Corry Robertson: You know, you don’t have to see, you don’t have to watch their eye movements. You don’t have to judging, are they crossing their arms and legs? Are they, you know, are they, I don’t know, pacing around the room? You can feel that energy beyond your eyes and your ears. And I think that is probably where leadership needs to go next. Is tapping into this ability to read energy through intuitive connection. And I know, you know, people might be thinking, oh my God, this is so wooed, woo. I don’t want to listen to this. But its intuition, you know, it is part of the human capacity. You know, we used to use words like gut instinct, you know, and that was accepted language, right? So, it’s the same thing. We can tap into energetic connections through intuition, if we pay attention and it’s a skillset that you can learn and you can practice, you can get good at.

Steve Rush: It’s also scientific too, isn’t it? So, you know, intuition is a reaction in our nervous system caused by a scanning thousands and thousands and thousands of unconscious events where we’re observing maybe only one or two things happening in front of us consciously, but the unconscious mind does the scan of all of the different experiences, how people breathe, how people speak, their tonality. And it’s that gut feel is caused by shifting dopamine in our brain. As coaches, it’s that paying attention to it that’s most important, isn’t it?

Corry Robertson: I’m so glad to hear the scientific explanations behind these things that have been so intangible and so therefore dismissed, but you’re right. You know, studies of the brain and neuroscience, neurobiology, it’s really starting to prove that, you know, what intuition is and how it works and why it works. So, you know, when we’re tuned in to these things, when we’re paying attention. I’ll tell you a little story, when I first started my coaching studies, I went to Coach U and Coach U is an international school and it was all done online and over the phone. Our classes were all telephone-based and our, you know, reading material, our tests and such were all online. And that was a long time ago. You know, when you think, I started in 2004, so that was really pre this world that we’re living in, where everything’s online. Our practice groups were of people from all over the planet. And I was having my turn to coach and my colleague, when she was doing her turn to be the client, she was in New Zealand and I was here in Quebec. And I asked her question and she went silent. And as you know, one of the coaching skills that we learned to master is the technique of holding the silence, where we just let silence be for as long as it needs to be without the rush to fill in words and more questions and more explanations, just be in the silence. So, in the silence, I started to cry.

Steve Rush: Wow, that’s pretty prolific, isn’t it?

Corry Robertson: Yeah, so I’m thinking, oh my goodness, what’s going on with me right now? I’m in the middle of a class that’s I’m supposed to be coaching a client of mine, and she’s going to start talking again and I’m going to be a mess. And so, I’m thinking, oh no, what’s going to happen. And then when she starts talking again, she’s crying and she realized she was crying because I asked her such a profound question. It was an epiphany for her. And I thought, here I am in Quebec and she’s in New Zealand. And we were so intuitively and energetically connected that I took on her emotions and felt them, myself.

Steve Rush: That’s amazing story.

Corry Robertson: Oh, you know, and when you start noticing, you know, I had a client a few months ago, he’s telling me this story, is so angry, something had happened at work. He was just so angry. And he said, Corry, so as he’s talking to me, I’m starting to feel this terrible stomach ache come over me. And I think I’m going to have to get off this call. Like if I don’t get this pain under control, I’m going to have to go. And he said, Corry, I’m so mad. He said, I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach.

Steve Rush: Wow.

Corry Robertson: You see? So, there’s two stories are examples of how we can be intuitively and energetically connected with another person. The gentleman I was talking about, he was in another province in Canada and we’re over the landline. And my classmate in New Zealand, again, we were on landlines, you know, so it exists and it happens. And it’s not just me. As, you know, you felt it too.

Steve Rush: Sure.

Corry Robertson: You have this wonderful, scientific explanation for why it happens. And I think it’s where we really need to go with leadership right now and communication. Is this ability to use our intuition as a communication skill.

Steve Rush: And there may be folks that are listening to this thinking. Just not me, I can’t do that. But of course, this is about practice. And as coaches, we’ve practiced thousands and thousands of hours over our careers. And the more you observe, we put that to the unconscious part of our mind, but we intuitively then can recognize it because we’ve seen it happen somewhere before, which gives us that nudge to ask more intuitive questions or more exploratory questions or more profound thinking questions. One of the key things that you help people with as part of your coaching practice is the whole principle of organizational culture. For those people who may be not familiar with what organizational culture is, how would you frame it?

Corry Robertson: So organizational culture is really how do the values that we share as people in this company, how did they show up in our behaviour? So that’s really the short, short explanation of it. So how do we treat each other? How do we dress? How do we treat the property? You know, the desks and the, you know, office supplies and things, what is the decor like? You know, all of these things represent culture. Do we speak quickly? You know, or do we speak slowly? Do we have a lot of meetings? How do we treat people when a mistake is made? How do we promote people? What do we value in the way people produce their work? So, all of these things lead to what the organizational culture is.

Steve Rush: Great summary, thank you for providing a bit more context for folk on that, I love that. In order to then think about what’s happened this year during the pandemic, wherever you own the world, however intense it’s been for you or not. How do you think that organizational culture might shift because of it?

Corry Robertson: That’s a really good question. So, I think cultures are shifting because we’ve had this, there’s a couple of really, really amazing things that have happened. So, for one thing, things that were deemed impossible and so impossible, they were unspeakable. Before COVID-19 all of a sudden became possible, mainly work from home, you know, so the call centres for banks, for example, impossible, impossible. There’s no way, you know, call centre employees from banks can ever work from home. Within a week they were working from home. So, I think cultures might be shifting in one way to see, you know, to acknowledge that what we always said was impossible, isn’t impossible. So, I think cultures that are going to be opening up to a lot more capacity for innovation, you know, and tackling what was deemed to be the impossible or tackling rules or norms that were just never discussed before, because it was just always that way. So now I think we realized we don’t have to live with things just because it was always that way, it wasn’t working.

Steve Rush: And some of those rules that you talk about they’re often applied because that’s how we know we can do things and the rules and belief systems that we had prior to the pandemic, said this is how we do things. And I guess as a result of being thrust into something that we thought, perhaps wasn’t possible 10 months ago, now creates the capacity to unlock new thinking, new innovation. That’d be kind of fair, summation?

Corry Robertson: I think that’s a great way of putting it, yeah.

Steve Rush: Great. One of the things you’ve been really big on in your career is that whole, how you coach people and how you help organizations to retain their top talent. And one of the things I’d love to get into with you is just this whole principle about how people are going to feel more valued because of what they’ve been through, but also how people might, particularly the talent end of the spectrum might use this as an opportunity to jump if they don’t feel valued. What’s your take on that?

Corry Robertson: Yeah, so I think that’s always been the case. I think it’s much more prevalent now, it’s much more obvious now. The war on talent has been something we’ve been talking about. You know, I’ve been talking about it for at least 10 years and trying to explain, there was a saying that, you know, I think it was the eighties where they said companies used to expect employees to prove their worth to the organization. And now it’s the other way around where organizations are having to prove their worth to the employee. And the war on talent has been such a hot topic of discussion in my field. And I’m sure you’ve heard it as well. I think to attract and retain talent these days. I really do think people are looking for cultures where they feel that, you know, there’s the movement for psychological safety, you know, so where people feel that they can speak out, they won’t be mocked or belittled because of their ideas or their values.

They’ll be able to make mistakes, you know, without fear of, you know, serious repercussions. You know, I think it’s important. People feel, you know, to again, to attract and retain top talent. The whole piece around being developed. You know, people want to be seeing and feeling how they’re learning and growing as human beings. You know, and this is not just a new idea. You know, you could just look back to, you know, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. And we see that the need to, you know, be connected to colleagues, to feel respected and appreciated for our work and the need to be growing and learning as a human being. Those are the top three things on the hierarchy of needs after safety and security. They’re not nice to have, there need to have an organization who can understand that and provide for that will be the ones who will be able to retain their talent and keep them from jump ship.

Steve Rush: There’s also been a big shift too, culturally, over the last 20 years as our Baby Boomers and Generation X are heading towards the more senior Twilight years of their careers. And in the next 10 or 15 years, most CEOs running the business are likely to be at the very least Gen Y. And in some cases, some Gen Z, colleagues too, and that plays out too, doesn’t it? When you start thinking about developing talent and expectations.

Corry Robertson: It certainly does. It certainly does. You know, the things that people care about are changing. And I was just doing some research the other day on the Gen Z. So Gen Z’s are now just finishing up university. They’re just entering the workforce. They need transparency. They have no patience for being left in the dark. They have no patience for lies or miscommunications. They want it clear and they want it on the table. And I really admire that. They, you know, there’s so much haze and smoke and mirrors and nonsense going around. And, you know, it’s so many organizations and the young folks are just like, yeah, no, say it like it is, you know, one of my favourite expressions is say what you mean and mean what you say, and the Gen Z are demanding that.

Steve Rush: The Gen Z workforce that’s going to be coming into play, seriously in the next 5 to 10 years are also of a cultural upbringing where there’s instant gratification. So, if we’re not instantly gratifying their career aspirations and helping them on their personal development journeys, then they’re most likely to also be impatient around how they get there, right?

Corry Robertson: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m a Gen X-er.

Steve Rush: I’m a Gen X-er too.

Corry Robertson: Okay, okay, good. So, what I was noticing with one of my younger cohorts recently is this request for reminders, you know, this request for more follow-ups. And I find that, you know, I’m catching myself going, wow. You know, my generation has tried so hard to reduce the number of emails and make things really clear. And, you know, just say it once and then, you know, write it down in your agenda book or note it in your online calendar, and then you’re good to go. And so, can you send me a reminder, you know, can you send me that material in like three different ways? And I’m like wow. And I’m checking myself going, well, my reaction is no, I’m not sending you a reminder, write it down.

Steve Rush: Yeah.

Corry Robertson: But it’s the need, it’s the way that generation is moving, you know, because I think they move so fast and everything is, you know, like that constant gratification you were talking about. It’s the way they want to be communicated with; you know? So, to be one who’s always trying to, you know, try to walk my talk cause like, okay, maybe I need to shift. I am the older one.

Steve Rush: Yeah.

Corry Robertson: You know, but as somebody who is adjusting to the new needs of the generations coming through, it’s like, okay, I maybe have to be the one to adjust.

Steve Rush: It’s great to ask those questions of yourself as well as part of that process. Isn’t it?

Corry Robertson: Absolutely, I think that’s how we stay relevant, right? And it’s what we are asking, you know, as coaches, we’re always asking people questions that cause them to reflect. So, we have to do that to ourselves as well.

Steve Rush: So, I saw some research recently that said over half of people that left organizations said on their exit interviews, that their line manager could have prevented them from leaving, which sounds like a real shame. But what causes that?

Corry Robertson: Oh boy, there are so many, there’s so many variables that lead up to that. So, it’s been proven time and time again, I’m sure you’ve seen this literature as well, that people don’t leave their jobs. And many times, they don’t even leave their companies, right. Cause you think of it, people spend many, many, many years and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars or pounds and investing in their educations. You know, they’re preparing themselves for the workforce. They’re studying, they’re spending their money on this. They’re sacrificing for their dream job and they get into the workforce. So, it’s not their job that they’re leaving and it’s not their company. You know, people go to a lot of trouble to choose their companies and to apply and prepare themselves to be the right fit for the organization. It’s the boss that they leave. It’s their direct manager. So, people aren’t leaving jobs or companies. They’re leaving their bosses.

Steve Rush: And it’s an old habit, but it’s so true, isn’t it?

Corry Robertson: It’s so true. It’s so true. Very often it’s not because the boss isn’t technically competent at his or her job. They often got promoted because they were technically competent. It’s because they don’t have the leadership skills.

Steve Rush: Right, and that takes us full circle right back to helping raise awareness and self-awareness of leaders so that they can impact the culture so that the talent, when they come into the workforce can be nurtured in the right way. And it’s then a positive experience versus a negative experience.

Corry Robertson: Absolutely, you know, and there are so many important parts of being a manager. And I always say that, you know, I compare, you know, the human interaction to something like the way that computer works and I’ll say the hardware doesn’t work without the software.

Steve Rush: Yes, good analogy, I like that.

Corry Robertson: You know, so it’s like the soft skills. You need the soft skills to get the job done. You know, you’re talking to human beings, people forget, you know, we all have feelings. We all have egos, we all have hopes and dreams and fears, and those cannot be overbooked. And it takes soft skills to be able to nurture a human being through the day’s work so that they can really perform, you know, without dropping the ball and leaving the organization.

Steve Rush: It does. It does. So now I get to turn the leadership lens on you. This is part of the show where I get to hack into your great mind from a leadership perspective. And I’d love for you to share with our guests, if you could, your top three leadership hacks?

Corry Robertson: Okay. So, number one, leaders keep in mind that not everybody is like you, the people who, you know, if you’re out there and your owner of a start-up and your company’s maturing, and you’ve got a workforce now. You might be wondering why isn’t everybody willing to work 24/7 and be available around the clock and make this thing happen. Because not everybody has that entrepreneurial spirit, not everybody can get an organization off the ground. And once you start growing to the point where you have a workforce, chances are, they’re not wired like you. So, don’t try to make them like you. Get to know yourself really well, and then from your self-awareness, start becoming aware of others and then work towards fulfilling their needs. And that’s how you’re going to turn it around. And it ignites passion for the organization and the organizational goals, so that’s number one.

Number two, I would suggest to leaders to get curious, you know, we were talking about this a little bit before, but get curious about what’s going on for people, what’s going on in their minds. You know, when they come into your office and they’ve got something on their mind that they want to talk to you about, don’t be so quick to jump in and give answers and advice and tell them what to do, ask questions. And you’ll see that once they see that you’re genuinely curious and you’re approaching the situation with, you know, conversational curiosity, they are really going to open up and you will have the opportunity to witness the brilliance and the potential in that other person. They already know that you’re brilliant. They already know that, it’s your turn now to get curious and figure out what’s brilliant about them. That’s going to make them feel great and it’s going to unleash their potential and their energy and their engagement in the role.

And my third hack is if people are delegating up, you know, giving responsibility back to you or not being able to move forward on things without coming to check with you, is this what you want? Is this the way you like it? Give me some ideas. If that kind of upwards delegation is occurring on your team, you probably haven’t done my first two hacks.

Steve Rush: Yeah, true.

Corry Robertson: Yes, so if people are delegating up back to you and you feel that they’re not moving ahead, I would ask you to check your soft skills and your coaching skills because they’re stuck.

Steve Rush: And it probably starts with coaching too, doesn’t it?

Corry Robertson: Well, you know, you’re a coach talking to a coach.

Steve Rush: We are speaking to the converted between us, aren’t we?

Corry Robertson: Absolutely. You know, to me, it’s Mecca, you know, it is the answer to everything. If you want to solve all of your organizational problems, just bring in a coaching culture. And you know, so many things will be better because of that.

Steve Rush: Very true.

Corry Robertson: I guess that’s hack number four.

Steve Rush: In fact, that could even be a new show, right?

Corry Robertson: Oh, absolutely. What a great idea.

Steve Rush: So, the next part of the show, our listeners have become affectionately accustomed to, which is what we call Hack to Attack. So, this is a time in your life or your work where something’s screwed up. It just hasn’t worked out as planned. But as a result of the experience, you use it as a positive in your life, what will be your Hack to Attack?

Corry Robertson: Oh boy, my Hack to Attack would be to slow down. You know, if I think back to who I was or what I was like when I was 21, I was in a huge rush. You know, if I don’t get this done by the time, I’m 23, or my career is going to be a disaster. Oh, my goodness, I’m 24 and I haven’t got this. I think in rushing like that or feeling rushed like that, it causes a stunted type of energy. And so, if I were to go back and if I were to bump into myself at 21 on the street, I would say, don’t worry, take it in stride, learn from everything, take it all in. And then everything good or bad right or wrong. It’s all another, you know, brick in the foundation. You know, it’s absolutely amazing when you look back, you know, 20 something years later and go yet, you know what? Even the painful things, even the embarrassing things, even the expensive things, they all led to now, and I can use every single one of those mistakes and embarrassing moments and lost investments. I can say hand to heart, they serve me well in this moment and they allow me to be a better coach, more empathetic, more compassionate, more experienced, gentle person.

Steve Rush: That’s awesome Corry. And I guess, you know, our show better than everybody else, because the next part of our show would be to jump into giving yourself advice at 21 and you’ve just done it, which is amazing. So, an advocate we have in you. So, I appreciate that. So, find the part of our show. We get to help our listeners connect with you, find out a little bit more about the work that you’re doing with the coaching category for leaders. Where’s the best place for our listeners to come and find you?

Corry Robertson: It can be found @corryrobertson.com, which is my website address. I’m also on LinkedIn, same Corry Robertson. And I have a Facebook page called Corry Robertson Alive From 9 to 5. And anyone who’s interested in becoming a coach. I am a coach trainer. I have my program, is accredited by The International Coach Federation. So, whether you are interested in using coaching as a leadership style and your day to day at work, or whether you would like to someday start your own coaching practice, I can definitely talk you through. We can have a conversation to see if you know, coaching as a profession is right for you. And if it is, then I can point you in the right direction,

Steve Rush: And we’ll make sure that all those links are in our show notes as well, so that folk can click on straight away.

Corry Robertson: Oh, thank you. And thank you so much for this opportunity.

Steve Rush: You’re very welcome. Hey, this has been super to connect with you. So, what’s next for you?

Corry Robertson: What’s next for me? Well, you know, so excited about, you know, moving, you know, at first, I did not want to move my training practice, my coach training practice online. So many people suggested it to me over the years and you can go global. I mean, I don’t want to, I want to go in person and be with my people and now forced to, I when online, wow! My online program is fantastic. I’ve made so many improvements. So, I think what’s next. The next wave is going to be for people like yourself and myself who are available online. Now we’re going to have to go back out into the world probably next year and create yet another hybrid of what is the perfect blend between the online piece, which I think is here to stay. I think I for one made a lot of improvements because of the online piece and then to take the best of both worlds. So, what was great about the in-person and now what is great about the online and then marry the two, so I think that’s what’s next

Steve Rush: Good, not much work to do.

Corry Robertson: No, well, you know what, between midnight and 3:00 AM, we have nothing to do.

Steve Rush: Yeah, exactly. Sleep is overrated.

Corry Robertson: Oh, totally.

Steve Rush: Anyway, listen. On behalf of our listeners, Corry, thanks for joining us on the show. It’s been a real pleasure talking with you. Wish you every success of what happens next in your world, but thanks for being on The Leadership Hacker Podcast.

Corry Robertson: Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening and you know, best wishes for health and happiness to you and all the leaders and all the listeners out there.

Steve Rush: Thanks Corry.

Closing 

Steve Rush: I genuinely want to say heartfelt thanks for taking time out of your day to listen in too. We do this in the service of helping others, and spreading the word of leadership. Without you listening in, there would be no show. So please subscribe now if you have not done so already. Share this podcast with your communities, network, and help us develop a community and a tribe of leadership hackers.

Finally, if you would like me to work with your senior team, your leadership community, keynote an event, or you would like to sponsor an episode. Please connect with us, by our social media. And you can do that by following and liking our pages on Twitter and Facebook our handler their @leadershiphacker. Instagram you can find us there @the_leadership_hacker and at YouTube, we are just Leadership Hacker, so that is me signing off. I am Steve Rush and I have been the leadership hacker.

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